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Calling for change in Douglas County
Written by Nancy Mitchell on Jan 18th, 2012. | Copyright © EdNewsColorado.org
What a joke the teachers are under attack? The teachers in public schools are the problem. If one looks at a random Comprehensive Annual Financial Report for cities in the United State one will find that the largest employer in that city is likely the public schools. Yet the public school system still fails in providing an adequate education to the students it forces to come to meetings like those demonstrated above. Teachers have too much power and fail to educate.
I’m not certain what Mr. Mcinerney is referring to when he says the teachers are failing to educate our children. My children have received excellent instruction and thank goodness for the schools (principals, teachers, staff, and fellow volunteering parents)!!!! I have great concern about our school board’s ability to lead us in the right direction and am growing concerned about the leadership of our superintendent.
Please DO NOT make global statements about our schools when you can not lump them all together with the rest of the country. And DO NOT make statements about MY children’s education.
School Board: please understand what damage you are putting our schools through!!!
Mr. McInerney,
I am truly hopeful that you would be willing to try working for a few weeks as a volunteer in several of our classrooms. I believe you would find that the majority of our teachers are certainly doing their level best to provide the highest quality education that they can.
I’m sure I would be unqualified to say what the “problems” might be in your line of work, so I don’t try to do so. I am hopeful that this is merely a question of lack of information on your part or – worst case scenario – of several bad experiences that certainly don’t represent the norm in our public schools.
I don’t disagree that we have a steep hill to climb to provide the best education possible to our students. It’s a noble goal and should therefore consist of a great effort to achieve it. But I don’t believe that calling each other names is the best way to effectuate change.
I wish there was something I could do to undo whatever negative circumstances caused you to feel this was about teachers and public education. I assure you, the majority of us are good folks who really do love our students.
Respectfully yours.
How can you have a community meeting if board members don’t respond to questions. The ironic thing is that their was a pretty presentation on all the advanced ways the school district is communicating with comunity.
Facebook…webenairs etc….But talking in person. I guess this Board does not believe that’s important!
Perhaps the failure of teachers is not in what is taught in the classroom but the failure to provide the education necessary for students to be successful as adults. It is not a teacher who as at fault in this situation but rather the district itself. Without money, we cannot be expected to offer classes for a truly well-rounded citizen. Likewise, we cannot offer new classes to replace the outdated ones still on the schedule (Agriculture for example). Do I fault the district offering my musically and artistically gifted student electives of 4 years of Agriculture and Home Economics (sorry, Foods and Home Management), you bet! There is no money in a small school district to replace these classrooms with ones that offer technology and higher level courses and more fine arts. He dropped out to receive his GED. Luckily it was the teachers who gave him the strong background in the basics to go to college and succeed.
Think about where you are Mr. McInerney, and wasn’t it a teacher who helped you succeed? I can’t imagine you are so gifted to have earned your education all on your own.I can’t imagine that there was not one single teacher who guided you toward understanding of a subject and it’s use in your future. Perhaps you were not satisfied with the educational offerings your District gave you, but to blame the teachers for your lack of knowledge is wrong. Blame yourself and your parents for not voting in Bond & Mill elections which would provide monies to schools.
Kelly, it was not a teacher “who helped me to succeed” it was my parents, the rest of my family and my determination to learn on my own. By the way I didn’t go to a public school until my final year in High School and that was a horrible decision on my part. I arrived and realized what a failure the public school system in Denver is. By the way I do not blame all of the teachers I blame the system of corrupt teachers who cry about the pensions they receive, the wages they receive, and then turn around and say portray themselves victims when the system test scores are well below the international standard of developed nations.
As for the Bond and Mill elections are an easy escape from taxing today to pay for what is deemed by the electorate as needed today. Bonds are costs. They benefit a powerful political constituency today and delay the costs for future generations to pay tomorrow. The bonds that we issue lease backs, revenue bonds, and so forth are pure kick backs to the teachers and their pension fund. A pension fund that failed, because the teachers union was not educated enough to understand how to diversify their investments. They allowed the fund to invest in all of the junk bonds Colorado Housing and Finance Authority dumped on them. Take some responsibility for the districts failures in education and realize that the voucher program would have never been created if the public school system worked.
Mr. McInerney,
You might want to check some facts before going on the attack. The schools in Douglas County do work and the outcry for the voucher program really has nothing to do with the current state of the schools in our district. Our district and our students are top achievers in the state. Unfortunately for our district political agendas are driving decision making. As for the “corrupt teachers” you describe, they are far and few between. Most teachers are dedicated professionals who see value in the work they do for children and take pride in that work. I don’t think most teachers would call themselves victims, we don’t subscribe to such a mentality, even though many people like to make us the scapegoats for the world’s problems. The frustrations being expressed by teachers in Douglas County do not stem from our lack of pay raises and the bad economy, but rather from the loss of focus on doing what is right for our kids and our schools, and instead allowing political agendas to drive decisions. We are frustrated by an us vs. them mentality from the leaders of our district who have decided that working together as a collective unit to improve education for our children is not a belief they support, and instead choose to alienate their employees. There is no question that much can and must be done to move education forward and provide the best possible system to grow smart, successful, world class educated thinkers, but that will never be accomplished if we can’t work together.
Platitudes and bumper stickers like: “us vs them,” “improve education for our kids and our schools,” and “grow smart” are not going to fix a system that has drained and is draining the government budget. I am also sure that “most teachers are dedicated professionals who see value in the work they do for the children.” However, I am also sure that the citizens of that county in whatever, field of work they are in, take pride in their work and try the best that they can to provide for their families and children. These people are the true scapegoats of the political system that is captured by a white collar public union who doesn’t factor in the economic situation of the district. Those people who will eventually pay for all of the demands the teachers and their union are forcing on the district. So yes, these people who elected the School Board should have their voices heard and yes the teachers could work together with the board by doing their job. Just because one says that they are not crying doesn’t mean that the outsider cannot hear the whimpers.
Providing students with a comprehensive education that meets todays needs: What, might I ask, does this mean to all of you? Are you even aware of what schools teach your children? Are you aware that more and more emphasis is placed on technology, and students can no longer write in cursive, often forget to capitalize the first letter of every new sentence, and do not fully understand punctuation? “Technology” is making our children lazy, as programs like “Word” or “Pages” will automatically correct these mistakes for the student. Weather or not you feel that is important, what IS important is that students are not aware of HOW to write intelligently or properly. This is just one example of many. Colleges and Universities around the United States have raised entrance standards and teach more remedial classes than ever before because students are NOT ready for college. If you truly think that “No Child Left Behind” is a good thing, then I suggest you start to fund it. We have to take a serious look at the reality of life. The expectation that all kids will go to college is not realistic. To expect every kid, in every class, in every school, in every state across the entire nation to test at the same level all the time is almost careless. If schools are required to meet these expectations, and will only receive funding if they graduate all or most of their seniors, then you better believe that more and more kids will graduate. They will all graduate and be in remedial classes their first two years of college. If you actually know anything about how children learn, then I suggest you support removing this school board. If you have the means to pay for a private education for your child, where the school can mandate who is let in, how they will behave, what they will wear, and so on, then do it. You will not receive vouchers. Period. Charter schools don’t have to play by the rules. Special needs students are let in on a case by case basis, which is not how the process works for public schools. Charter schools can remove students for whatever reason they choose.
Stop blaming the teachers. Many, if not the vast majority of teachers, have multiple college degrees. They are experts in their field. If you don’t like that your child earned a poor grade, I suggest you talk to you child. (For the record, that is referred to a parenting.) If you want to remove teachers that are performing poorly, then you need to fund the district with highly qualified experts in every teaching field, who are proven Master Teachers, to work with Administration within the schools. Principals are not qualified in every area. They can only comment on classroom environment and teacher behavior. Most principals are over extended and overwhelmed.
I would like to suggest that anyone who thinks public schools are failing because teachers are not “doing their jobs” takes some time to visit a school and see what teachers actually have to put up with. Have you ever had an employee or subordinate say, “No, and you can’t make me”? Have you ever had an employee or subordinate consistently turn their work in late or not at all, and be required to let them turn it in whenever they see fit without any kind of consequence? Have you ever had an employee or subordinate start every day fifteen or twenty minutes late, only to arrive with an excuse form a parent? What is even more unbelievable is that when teachers try to talk to parents or school administration, they are often met with hostility or denial. “My child would NEVER do that!” Seriously? Your child would NEVER do anything to a) impress their friends, b) avoid detention or punishment by lying to someone, c) break the rules just to see how far they can go? These behaviors all all part of a child’s development. Teachers know this. Principals know this. It’s part of any curriculum for any teacher at any University or College.
Finally, do you even know what a teacher makes in Douglas County? Let me give you an example. A teacher new to the district with 7 years experience and a Masters Degree will make just over $45,000 a year. $45,000 a year with multiple higher education degrees is dismal at best. Teachers in many towns, small and large, in the State of Wyoming will make that their first year, with only a Bachelors degree.
Mr. Mcinerney, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
Phillip your rant above addresses several problems with public education in your own words. The students are not being provided the education that their parents, the community and the nation paid for through their hard earned tax dollars. This is not to say that all teachers perform poorly, but you as well as you colleagues know who these teachers are and it is your job to make sure that the school removes them from their duties. If you care about the children as most teachers claim removing these poorly performing teachers would add credence to the claim. Furthermore, if principals are overwhelmed then they are not fit for their positions and should subsequently be removed from their post. Just as the teacher who is not performing their duties.
In response to your questions regarding children who say “no and you can’t make me” (followed by the rest of the diatribe) every parent has dealt with these questions. If, as you say, the parents do not abide by the schools codes of conduct then you should take action with social services (god knows the taxpayers pays exorbitantly for their services as well) or just fail them, because they do not deserve a passing grade. Parents will catch on. By the way these comments also show that the public school system is a failure if you are not able to carry out such actions and private sector schools are more appropriate institutions for the education of the next generation.
More importantly your salary quote is quite a farce. Let’s assume that you are right about the $45,000 salary a year. Then by accounting for a partial summer break and excluding all calendar holidays (provided by Douglas County Schools) and assuming a 9 hour working day a teacher makes 22.83 an hour. The private sector teacher of course makes less. However, let’s also assume a private sector employee like an architect (my girlfriend) makes $45,000 a year and has a Masters works at least 10 hours a day (really much more, because they also work a lot of weekends) has a 260 day work year and makes 17.31 dollars an hour. However, this is not the only problem of your assertion of salary. A private worker is not given a golden benefits package of insurance that the public sector employee is provided. The pension fund of teachers must also be mentioned here. If a teacher works at the salary you provided for 30 years, according to PERA, the estimated initial monthly benefit would equal $33,750. A grand sum for a teachers pension system. The same pension system that needed a bailout from the state government, because of the funds poor investments. Such a bailout would never be possible for those who invest in IRA’s or 401ks and ultimately pay the public employees’ benefits. Moreover, we should not forget that teachers are eligible for loan forgiveness on their student loans. Loan forgiveness is definitely not a part of the private sector annual salary. Only teachers who are greedy would try and pass off their salary as their wage.
Poor Michael has a chip on his shoulder and some really bad evidence. I’d imagine that all those years isolated from the public left him ill prepared for the realities of America’s rich diversity.
A friend of mine left a position in Geophysics to teach middle school science. He has what some call a “heart for service.” He left the private sector along with an $80,000 a year pay cut to teach in public schools. He hadn’t accounted for how much of his meager salary goes to pay health care – those “golden benefits” Michael refers to. They had to sell their home and downsize to something more affordable.
My husband, Paul, like Michael, graduated from DPS, the district he attended since kindergarten. He’s now a senior manager for the largest defense contractor in CO. He is the inventor of two patents, a Boettcher Scholar and finished 2nd in his class at the Colorado School of Mines. He credits his teachers and the rich student diversity he experienced for his success. He not only learned the math and science skills but he learned how to relate to all different kinds of people. At Morey middle school he shared desks with the wealthiest and poorest kids in Denver. That level of cultural, economic, and ideological differences was most helpful to his ability to relate to others. Today he is the youngest senior manager in the company.
What may be most relevant about this story is that Paul’s starting salary was about $30k (that’s close to the starting salary of today’s first year teachers). I began teaching in Douglas County five years later. In 1994 starting salaries were about $24k. Although Paul works for the private sector, the defense company is essentially funded with public dollars, like public education. The difference is that over a twenty year period his salary has multiplied nearly six times. A classroom teacher that spends her entire career in the classroom will be lucky to see that salary triple. For example, in the four years that Douglas County teachers have gone without a pay increase, Paul’s salary has increased by $20k in those four years.
It’s a sad reality to me that we place so little value on our children and the teachers who serve them. I’m incredibly relieved to see parents, students, and teachers stand together against a board who has attempted to direct public dollars into private schools with no public accountability while growing classrooms and starving teachers. In a recent legislative meeting, a member of the Colorado Assoc. of School Boards, CASB, said there have been no repercussions for the Douglas County School Boards actions, I’m glad to see that is not the case. Let’s not waste our attention on the “disgruntled Michaels’” of the world. The children are ready to learn.
there is no correlation between class size and quality of education or results…that is a straw man argument from teacher’s unions….the people have spoken how they want their public education run by electing this school board and now the teachers are protesting…let the people’s choice have their time and see how it goes
the current norm in public education = the lunatics are running the asylum….it hasn’t been working and DougCo is trying something new – something the public decided they want that we must remember the teacher’s unions do not want
Golden parachute package? Please explain.
The quote about failing a child if they do not meet expectations is actually some what sad. You really need to do more research than looking at the PERA website to get your data. If you have no idea as to what you are talking about, please get your facts straight before posting.
Michael,
You’re making some giant leaps with your salary logic. The assumption that teachers are only working 9 hours a day is laughable, but your implication that teachers aren’t dedicating time on the weekends or during a “partial summer break” is even worse. The majority of teachers are working sporting events, sponsoring clubs, coaching, or (and this will be hard for you to believe, so bear with me) staying late or working on site on the weekends to make-up for the fact that salaries have been frozen for so long.
Had you gone to a public school and actually been around real teachers, you might have a better understanding of how hard teachers work in their “off time.”
I would like to direct the pro union crowd to realize that democracy also looks like a voting booth. Teachers make a living off of other peoples taxes ,who happened to have voted in the school board and voted against any increase of monies to the school. Over 70% of Douglas County residents do not have children who are school age. Why not go out and change the tax payers minds? Stop your whinning it only makes you look like babies who have been coddled. Respect your employers and remember there are alot of other people who are willing and able to do your job. The economy stinks right now and the majority of tax payers havent had any raises in years either. In fact alot of them have lost their jobs.
Angela, I am the only one here who has cited evidence or placed some real numbers to the realities of the dilemma that the district faces. All of the other arguments in this comment stream have been based on platitudes, innuendoes, assertions, and bullying tactics with no citations, evidence, or critical thinking. It might be added that conflating the choice of one geophysicist decision to leave his job in one sector to move to another sector is pure hyperbole. Remember the geophysicist made a conscious decision to leave his or her job to enter the science field as a teacher. If he took a salary cut then that was his own individual choice.
However, it must be stated that I am not opposed to setting up a system of pay scales in the public schools where scientists and mathematicians are paid by a commensurate evaluation of their next best pay scale for the type, quality and performance measures in the private sector. This would be more like a private sector supply and demand curve than the one the public school system of Colorado uses today. Furthermore, this same scale should be used for fine art teachers, English teachers, physical education teachers, social studies teachers, political science teachers, and history teachers all of whom would be paid less than the skill sets of mathematicians, scientists, and engineering that are in high demand in the private sector.
In regards to your husband’s education attainment the Colorado School of Mines is a fantastic school and I am sure that he is a fine and decent man. However, be careful not conflate the subsidy from the United States Department of Defense provided to the corporation that he works for with the direct public moneys given to public educators. His company is paid for delivering a product based on the quality of the product, the cost of the product, and the presumed need for the product relative to another company that will produce the same product for lower costs assuming the same quality of product. Moreover, the company that he works for will has measurable quality of work standards and everything in the company is accounted for by measurable cost estimates. If his company finds that an employee is not up to par they will be released without prejudice. Whether or not the government is spending too much on military contracts is another issue that one can debate, but I am not opposed to real Federal Government cuts in defense spending. On the other hand, public schools receive a direct payment based on the political will of the time, less measurable techniques for accounting for quality, accountability, and a product has little competitors (assuming no voucher system). Once more, DOD spending is a Federal Government Outlay as is Department of Education spending, but local tax dollars are a more important source of funding for public education and when a district is in a crunch public education spending must be meticulously evaluated. If the public education system is not delivering a public good the locality wants then other providers must be given the means to compete.
Moving on to Chris, who makes a wild assumption of “not being around real teachers” it is hard not to know a public school teacher when their industry is the largest industry in any State or Locality. As stated in a previous comment, the Comprehensive Annual Financial Reports of the majority of cities, towns, and counties verify my assertion. Most teachers are fine people and many of my friends that are public school teachers know my objections, assertions, and my charges of corruption. Although, they also know that the charges are not leveled against them it is against a system that has overstepped its mandates of educating the children. A charge that stands in every school district that doesn’t provide an education to “our children” on a level with comparable with other developed nations, but is provided with adequate funding to do so.
Chris your assertion that teachers are donating time in their off hours is a completely bunk argument and the assertion that teachers work longer hours than those employed in the private sector is laughable. Many in the private sector do the same. They work longer hours, but still find time to do charitable work for habitat for humanity, sponsor clubs, coach their kids sports teams, provide art classes, and referee sporting events. These declarations of yours just show the unrealistic perceptions of the world that you live in.
John,
If you’re suggesting that educators are running the schools, you’re sorely mistaken. Education is the only professional industry that is run by everyone but the professionals. And for your information, the public isn’t behind the school boards decision – it just happens to be a conservative district with a conservative agenda. When home values start dropping because DC hasn’t invested in their public schools, we’ll see the pendulum swing.
The argument that class sizes doesn’t matter is yet another example of the ignorance around educating our children. I bet you think puppy mills are a good idea too.
Still Wating for Superman!
“Last September, the big school reform movie was Waiting for Superman, which posited that the proliferation of nonunionized charter schools could close the achievement gap between poor and middle-class students—even though research shows that nationally, only 17 percent of charters are consistently better than traditional public schools at raising students’ math and reading scores.” http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2011/09/american_teacher_dave_eggers_and_matt_damon_s_new_documentary_is.html
Mr. Mcinerney (as well as any others that want to answer),
I think you have some valid points, but progress can’t really be made by merely saying what not to do. What direction would you move? How would you handle the union? How would you establish teacher pay? Cope with the budget cuts? Would class size be one of your concerns? Clearly students leaving the public school system are often not prepared for college, how would you amend that? Is there anything else that needs to be changed with the school system?
You might want to know that most classroom teachers are women. So you will be waiting for superman for a really long time. Many men do not have the patience to do the level of work that is required by a classroom teacher. I teach and spend most of my weekend assessing grades, contacting parents, writing emails, creating lesson plans, and entering grades into Infinite Campus. Yes teachers know that people in the private sector work long hours. This year the teachers of Colorado were 3rd in the nation on the NAEP Assessment. I think that the teachers in Colorado are doing an amazing job. I noticed last night at the BOE meeting that all of the children who were recognized for military honors, athletics, and robotics were ALL from public schools. NOT ONE WAS FROM A CHARTER SCHOOL!
Thank you Elisabeth, you seem to be willing to work on how to fix the problems with public schools. I must state that I am not smart enough to answer all of your questions with certainty. It seems to me that public schools nee competition and the teachers and students in the system need some discipline (according to what the some teachers have stated in the comment posts above). First their needs to be a private competitor to the public school system with some sort of consequences for the public funding of the public school system. I am not sure that any one specific model will work, but their needs to be some tinkering. Of course, if it is true that Charter Schools do not accept students who are disabled or need special attention then their could be funding incentives provided to either system that deals with those in special need with a proper accounting of measurable metrics that both systems (private and public must publish in accordance with a state law).
Moreover, it is unreasonable to expect all children to go to a four year college. As much as society pushes this on the individual we have created a watered down college education, because of these expectations. We have also created a gigantic student loan bubble that is only pushing up tuition rates for college level students to subsidize a liberal arts education. All of these subsidies could be used for a far more productive society or pay down the bloated budgets of the Federal, State, and Local governments and their off-budget entities.
On the point of the teachers union. I have to be honest when I say public unions should be abolished. Not because the unions are not accomplishing their mandated goals, but since the union is not protecting the quality of the education system. Nor is the union protecting the life and safety of the employee. The employee, in the case of the public union, is a bureaucratic entity that eventually will funnel moneys from the citizens in an undemocratic fashion. Do I fault teachers for joining a union? Absolutely not. It is only natural for an individual to feel as though they are not being compensated enough for the job that they do. We all feel that our job is more important than the jobs that others do.
Budget cuts are important instruments of the government and thankfully the United States Constitution and constitutional law deal with state budgets and debt burdens unlike what the Europeans did in the soon to be defunct or bankrupt European Union. States must have balanced budgets by their acceptance into the Union. States incorporate counties, towns, and cities (yes a town, city, or county is not a body of government it is a corporation) provisions for this incorporation include so called covenants and one is a balance budget. Municipalities (short for towns, cities, counties) can have their charters removed by the State for a failure to abide by a covenant. One of these covenants is the ability to pay the general obligation bond holders who have first lien (mortgage rights) on the municipalities revenues and properties. If these bonds fall into arrears the bond holders may take action and force the municipality to set up a payment facility or in a worst case scenario put the municipality into bankruptcy court risking the charter of the municipality. Public employees, such as teachers must, as most other public employees take pay cuts or worse when situations such as these arise (by the way if you look at the CAFR Douglas County you will see the city is on the verge of falling in arrears), because the consequences of falling into arrears is awful for the entire municipalities survival. If arrears arrive and a technical default arises the municipality will pay for its failure to make timely payments by a higher interest charge on its debt in perpetuity. Meaning, public goods will cost those who live in the incorporated territory and use the public goods provided by the municipality will pay far more than those who live in the municipality right next door, because their municipality did not default.
Mr. Larson, your comment shows your ignorance of empiricism, as regards correlation, and your blanket anti-union sentiment demonstrates either an ignorance of history or moral turpitude. The most basic regression model could demonstrate a correlation between class size and standardized test scores, though I doubt it is the most powerful explanatory variable and the result of long struggle for workers’ rights are enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the International Covenant on Economic, Social, and Cultural Rights (which, admittedly the U,S. is one of the only countries not to have ratified, being in such stellar company as Saudi Arabia). Our educational system has obviously failed you, don’t allow it to fail current and future students.
Mr. McInerney is obviously a republican who would like nothing more than to privatize schools. Probably voted for this terrible board (no doubt) and hasn’t a clue about education. 43 students in a class? That is a teacher’s fault?! Seriously.
Unions are what made the middle class in America – both private and public. As they dissapear, so does the middle class. Anyone who reads any news knows that the middle class is dissapearing as the unions get crushed by republicans (starting with Reagan and the air traffic controllers).
The most powerful public comment of the evening was from Becky Barnes, a Douglas County parent.
I am surprised it got no coverage.
That the crowd in the audience was intimidating was evident on Mrs. Barnes’ face and in her trembling voice. She read a thoughtful letter about Douglas County High School-one of the oldest in our district.
She described in detail this school’s peeling paint, the lack of technology, bells, whistles, even the void of up to date textbooks. Mrs. Barnes provided a powerful testimony of her faith and confidence in the said school because of their positive attitude. “Not once did they mention budget cuts,” she said.
In contrast,at her child’s current school, her child has been subjected to reminders from adults that there is not enough money and that parents don’t care enough to vote for a tax-increase.
Mrs. Barnes then turned and faced the union group and pleaded “This has to stop. Please do not let your situation or frustration spill into the classroom and onto our kids.”
What a well thought though and timely reminder.
I stumbled upon this post while searching for more information about the Douglas County School Board. I am a parent to a Kindergartner who is currently enrolled in a private school. After reading this discussion, as well as the response from Justin Williams, I am seriously re-thinking my decision to enroll my child in a Douglas County public school. I too have serious concerns about the Board’s deceptiveness. Did you know that they don’t even have direct contact information published anywhere on the web? Even our STATE Board members have that information publicly available.
I want to thank everyone who commented, from both sides of the argument.
Now, I’m off to find a private school…
The Voucher issue is a totallly politcal issue driven by the wealthy who want to fund their personal choice through public funds. As a tax payer in Douglas County I do not want my tax money going to pay for my nieghbors choice to send his or her child to a private school.
The fact that this board was elected is a reflection of selfish citizens who don’t have school aged children or have children that no longer use the public schools. I would however agree that the lack of support for school funding is also economically driven it would be nieve of anyone to diagree with that fact.
To say that class size does not affect educational success is ignorant. Anyone who has sat in a lecture hall in a college class and had a question or needed clarification on an idea or process would agree.
I am a product of public education as are my brothers and sister. I was not a good student and did not earn the grades to go to college after graduation and worked in the construction industry for 30+ years. In contrast two of my older brothers went to the same scools had the same teachers and parents, both became engineers and earned their masters in their selected feilds. My point being in any school you will only get out what you are willing to put into it. Educators can not force children to learn they can guide and try to inspire but it is up to the pupil to accept their guidence, challenges and to meet their expectations.
Finally I would say to all the detractors of public education it is far easier to point out problems and point fingers than to fix the problem. To point the finger at educators and paint them all as bad inadequate educators is too broad a brush. In these days of standardized tests and performance based pay teachers are forced to teach to what is mandated rather than what is best for the students. Teachers are forced to teach children to the CSAP test to try to preserve funding for their schools rather than teaching nuanceses of their chosen subjects.
I would like to say that my children were awarded the vouchers from Douglas County Schools. We thought it was a wonderful opportunity for us to give our children a better choice of school that would better meet their needs. My family is not wealthy and we also pay taxes. Without the vouchers we were not able to offer our children this opportunity.
From where I stand, I believe that Douglas County Schools and their board is working to offer myriad options to all people and their families so that everyone can be successful. From conversations with many other parents, some prefer homeschooling, some the online virtual school, while others like public, charters, or private. I applaud their forward thinking and action to ensure that Douglas County is ahead of the curve in offering the best for the kids.
The issue continues to be whether the teachers will be hurt or better for the options and possible smaller classrooms. With the district keeping 25% of the tax revenue per student for the public schools, whether the student is in a public school or not doesn’t seem to be a negative to me. Plus, the public school classrooms may be smaller, which gives the teachers a better ability to give quality time to each student.
Again, I believe that DCSD and its board is working to offer our students the best options so that they all succeed – including teachers. In the world we live in today, the public school system will not be hurt by offering other options. As Americans, we should be driven by the desire to succeed and better our people, not by a fear of change.
Angela, I will assume from your comments that you are a teacher. So, let’s examine some of the problem. “The argument that class sizes doesn’t matter ” is a comment typical of teachers across the Country. It should be “don’t”. Is this nitpicking? Maybe. Too bad. Teachers should be able to write in English without such obvious errors.
Phillip Newland believes that we should care about teachers’ multiple degrees. I don’t. The reason most teachers have multiple degrees is because mandatory pay increases go with these. The private sector bases pay on the work performed, not the degree held. We shouldn’t pay a teacher more for doing the same work with one more piece of paper on their wall.
I watched an exchange between a prospective teacher and another woman while riding the Light Rail one day that was illustrative of the problem. The student was concerned about an upcoming test. She wanted to get at least enough to raise her overall GPA to a 2.0 so she could get into teacher’s college (her words, not mine.) The quality of our teachers is definitely in question, as are the benefits they receive. If I make poor choices in investment for my retirement, I lose out. When PERA fails, the taxpayer makes it up.
The voucher concept is not a problem for teachers because of concerns about the quality of student education. No logical argument supports this. The program would provide partial funds for students that receive vouchers to public schools so there is no loss unless huge numbers of students leave for private education. This should only be seen as a threat to public education if the teachers and their unions believe that the quality of public schools lags private education. Given that the full per student funding wouldn’t go to the private school, many would have to do more with less than the public schools get per student. The fear experienced by teachers is a fear of competition, and nothing else.
Angela Engel also argues that the public is not behind school boards decision. Guess what? The Conservative district may have a Conservative agenda, but that is because of the Conservative majority of the public. In other words, the public is most definitely behind the decision. It is the minority trying to prevent what the majority wants. Take your family and your kids somewhere else if it frightens you so much, and let the experiment begin. The results can speak to whether it is the right decision.
David Anderson, much the same applies to your comment. Although I don’t agree that selfishness plays any significant part in this, it is the people of Douglas County that want school choice. The majority wants it. Take your tax money somewhere else if you don’t want choice. If the program works, you are welcome to come back.
Luke Franklin, thanks for your post. I suppose you are a teacher too. You have made my argument about the quality of our teachers with your run on sentences and complete lack of critical thinking skills.
Let school choice move forward. Something different needs to happen, and there is no way to find out if it will work if it is never tried.
There are many good ideas here. There is a lack of true understanding too. Just like the participation in this discution, we all must take a part in the remedy. It is not a blame game. It is a serious lack of attention to finances. Bottom line. Just as with any business, the proper establishment of the means necessary to accomplish a task, provide a service, provide a product with a balanced mission to secure success is being overlooked. The root of the problem is mismanagement. People are not acting in accordance to the mission. The mission and focus is to successfully teach our children. The “product” is a superior education that will prepare our young children for adulthood. Education that provides knowlege necessary to allow our children to earn a living, provide for themselves, their future, their community and their country. That’s the “product”. Taxpaying citizens are getting fed up with the failed “product”. The children are not learning what they should and the taxpayer is not getting a “cut”. Let’s stop with the propaganda. Let’s start with accountability. This is not a “bad” idea. Whether you want to admit it for not, it is happening naturally, just as it does in the private sector. The notion that you can to continue to expend without the necessary means, will soon end the entire argument. The American Taxpayer should be allowed to take his/her tax money and remove it from a failed educational system and place it in one that is successful. The idea that taxpayer money is somehow some else’s money to spend, is bunk. You WILL run out of other people’s money. That being said, after all is considered, accountability will come to those responsible. All of us. It will be up to all of us to keep the focus on the children, successful education, honest management of taxpayer dollars, the proper and ethical management of employees and their representatives. We can no longer afford failing our children. WE can not afford failing anyone. We MUST protect the future of our children and our country. Get the facts, get informed and get involved. There is a success way.
Except for that I don’t believe that anyone could point to a “failing” school in Douglas County. There are many, many logical fallicies in the arguments of the voucher proponents, but what was glaring about the previous post is that we’re talking about affluent, high-performing schools. What “failed product” could you possibly be talking about in Douglas County?